The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness

In this delightful interview with Katharine Giovanni, we discuss her powerful, life-changing book, The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness. I have read it and highly recommend it. The tools and steps within her book are easy for anyone to apply and begin to practice daily to clear their energy field and emotional body. Enjoy!

Transcript

Hello, everyone. This is your host, Keri Logan at Master of the Upper Rooms. And I am really excited today because I have a special guest. My special guest today is Catherine Giovanni, and she is a three-time award-winning bestseller author. She's a dynamic speaker, an advisor, and a forgiveness coach. And she is recognized as one of the original founders of the independent concierge industry. So welcome, everyone. Catherine is here. How are you today, Catherine? Well, thanks so much for having me, Carrie. I appreciate it. So I read, well, I didn't read. I listened to two of your books that are on Audible, the one about forgiveness and the other one about the little bird on your shoulder. Fabulous, fabulous books. One of them that I just wanted to say that I thought was really interesting that lines up with what I teach, Mastering the Upper Rooms, 

is when you were coaching that one woman about how to increase her sales, concierge sales. Oh, yeah. Yes. And what you did was really cool because you guys got stuck down in frustration. And when you took that break and you went back to neutrality and you calmed down, that's where all the 4D tools are. And you thought of, oh, these are the options. These are the solutions. and you found them, which was really, really cool. And you share how you found those solutions. So why don't you share with everyone just kind of briefly so they understand what I'm talking about, that little scenario. I used to teach people, I've retired from the industry at this point, but I used to teach people how to start an independent concierge business. And it's just like a hotel concierge, except they're bringing it to mainstream America. 

So somebody hired me for a private session and we got to the fee setting part. And she said, well, this is the part I really need help with. And I said, OK, so what do you charge? She said five dollars. I said, for what? She said everything. And I said, let me get straight. You're running errands for people and you're doing weddings and all these things and you're just charging five dollars. She said, yeah. And I looked at her and I thought in my head, I said, this is easy because. we raise our prices. And I said, well, you just have to raise your prices. She said, I don't want to. And I said, excuse me? She said, I don't want to. And I said, okay, back up. She said, listen, I bought this business from my boss. She sold it to me for a really cheap price. And I said, was she making any money? She said, no, because that's why I got it so cheap. And I said, but you have to raise your prices. She said, nobody, everybody in the building where I'm a concierge in the lobby, 

is used to paying $5, they won't pay any additional money. And I said, okay, well then why don't we get you additional buildings where you can set up your shop? So instead of having one building, you can have more than one. She said, no, I don't have the time. I am banging my head against the wall at this point. So I gave her a break and we just had a break, but I needed the break because the way my gifts work is sometimes I have to let it sit in my head and I have to just walk away from the situation So I can get in tune with that still quiet voice inside my head, which I've been able to do since I was a child. And I kind of walked around the club that we were in. And when I came back, I had the answer. I said, why don't you charge $5 for every 15 minutes of service? And she loved it. Now, we all know she's still learning Birdseed, but at least it's more than $5 an hour. I mean... 

I mean, it was just the craziest situation ever. And she went off and I lost track of her, but she did very well for a few years. Yeah, and I mean, and that's the beautiful thing is thinking outside the box. Yeah. Yeah, I've really liked that story of how you calm down. So, and on the book about forgiveness, I really enjoyed the thoughts that people have of, Well, if I forgive them, I let them off the hook. Right. Well, if I forgive them, that means what they did is okay. All those excuses. I thought it was really important to hear because a lot of people can be stuck. And that's what keeps us stuck. I call them limiting beliefs. And so how do you tell everyone, how do you forgive the unforgivable? 

Well, first, everybody tells you that you have to forgive. Nobody teaches you how to forgive. Yeah. I teach the how. And also, what if you don't want to? Then what do you do? So on a scale of one to ten, with ten being unforgivable dumpster fire and one being the easiest person in the world to forgive, everybody listening and watching to this broadcast right now is thinking of their number ten, the person that hurt you the most. And that's completely fair. And you may or may not want to forgive this person because it's unforgivable. Also fair. So I'm the only one in the world that's going to tell you you don't have to forgive that person because there's a lot of people, places and things. And I did say places and things that you can forgive before you even get to that dumpster fire. Now, a few things. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. Probably don't. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean I'm giving you a pass. And now all of a sudden you're correct. 

You're not. You're still wrong. You're still a dumpster fire. Forgiveness for me, and there's a reason why I call it a dumpster fire. The forgiveness for me simply means I want you out of my head. I want you out of my head. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop dreaming about you. When I think of a memory, I don't want to get mad anymore. That's what it means. And my system is designed to neutralize the memories. Because you've got these people in the planet who are saying, oh, forgiven, you'll forget. Right. No, there might be one unicorn happy person on the planet living bliss blissfully who can forgive and forget. I am not your girl. And I wrote the book on it. So what my what my system will do, it's going to neutralize the memory. So you can look at that person and look at that memory and there won't be any emotion there. That's what I'm looking for. 

So when you're dealing with the unforgivable, and remember, my system is I want you to start with the ones, the easy ones, and work your way up to the hard ones. But if you want the unforgivable, sometimes yourself is the unforgivable. So why do I have, why do I say a dumpster? Because you may or may not be able to forgive the person you're mad at, and it may not even be appropriate if it was something really horrific. So there's other things you can forgive. You can forgive yourself. You can forgive other things within that memory. So if you can't forgive your childhood bully from grammar school, Einstein did prove that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It just transforms from one thing into another. He also correctly said that everything on our planet, including this microphone that I'm using, has energy around it. And what nobody understands, the special sauce to the whole method, is nobody remembers 

Thinks to forgive the energy. So when I call it a dumpster fire, I want you to pull out other things in the memory. If you can't forgive the person, forgive the building, the energy around the building, forgive the table, the bed, the chair, forgive the day, forgive the playground, forgive the people who stood around and didn't help you and the energy around all these things. And that's going to be just enough to allow yourself to move forward. No, that was perfect because a lot of people don't forgive those things. They don't forgive the energy around it. And we are energetic beings. We are. And everything is energy and vibration. And I forget what book that I read, but it was really fascinating where when I get up and I leave this chair, my imprint of my energy is still going to be on it for 10 minutes. 

Sure. Well, yeah. And a lot of people don't know that. I mean, that's a scientific, I don't, I forget how they figure that out. Um, and a lot of people, even like with plants, plants are alive. Plants have energy. When you berate and yell at a plant, it literally feels it. It knows that and and And they did a whole scientific study about that. And when you send plants love, and that's why when you talk to plants, you send it nice energy. They thrive. They're happy. I have a plant downstairs we call Grandpa, and he's 30 years old. There was a study done in Japan. It's called the Japanese Water Study. And it's done by a guy named Masumoto something. I can't remember his exact name. And he took several containers of water. One container of water he spoke beautiful, loving words to. 

The other container of water, hate, negativity, horrible, horrible words. Then he froze the water and he put it under a microscope. So the water he spoke horrible things to had these black and brown formations, nasty looking. And the water he spoke love to, beautiful crystal kind of formations. So why am I saying this? Your body's almost 98% water. So when people say anger is toxic, this is the how. I like teaching the how. You are literally when your self-talk is negative and your anger and you're bitter and you're holding on to things, you're literally turning the cells in your body into sludge and it's going to make you sick. So when you forgive, even if you forgive the easy ones, it's going to actually start to change the cell, the water cells within your body and you're going to start to feel better. Yes. And they actually showed proof of that in what the belief do we know? 

Where Joe Dispenza was talking about the cells when you're, you know, thinking those angry, hateful thoughts. The clip was of a woman looking in the mirror and she saw her thighs explode and she started beating herself up, you know, for fat shaming herself. And when she realized what she was doing, she then, you know, stopped and took red lipstick and was drawing hearts all over herself and apologizing politely. Please forgive me for doing this. And I thought it was just a fabulous, fabulous movie or documentary that was created. Your body listens to everything you say. Yes. Yeah. Now, another thing I want people to get, and I know both of us know this, but do you have to forgive to a person face-to-face? And do you have to tell them? No. No. 

I've been sober for 34 years. I got sober. The flashpoint in my life was probably when my mother died. And I realized that after she died, if I didn't clean up my act, I was going to probably follow her. So I cleaned up my act. And when you go, when you quit drinking, you have to go, you go into AA and all these recovery programs and they tell you where you have to forgive and you have to make amends. And a lot of them want you to reach out to the people. Okay. I was born shy, like painfully shy. And I am an extroverted introvert now because I've taught myself over the years to overcome that. But back then, there was no reaching out to anybody. And if I knew they were mad at me, oh, no, no, that's not going to happen at all. So my system is forgiveness is selfish. It's the ultimate selfish act. It's personal. You don't have to reach out to anybody. You do it for you. You never do it for them. 

They're probably walking around on the planet and they're having dinner and they're going to work and they're all happy. And that kind of makes everybody mad because you want them to be as miserable as you are. But they're not. They don't care. They're not thinking about you. Ever. Ever. So you forgive. You forgive for you. You forgive because you want them out of your head. Now, let me be clear. You can forgive dead people. Yeah. Because it doesn't matter where they are or they're not. If they're living in your head, you can forgive it. And you can forgive the memories inside your head. I had a dysfunctional start to my life. My childhood is filled with alcoholism and I tried to commit suicide in the eighth grade and on and on and on it went. But I can look back now that I've forgiven my past. I can look back at my childhood and I can pick out the pockets of love that were there. Heck, I forgave 1974 the whole year. 

Why did I forgive 1974? Because it was a horrific year. My parents were both alcoholics. They were getting a horrible divorce with all those that that comes with. I was getting bullied in school and I tried to commit suicide. So I did pick out the memories because I do practice what I preach. I pick out the memories. I used to say I drink my own Kool-Aid, but I have to stop saying that because it's such a horrible reference. Please don't Google that. Now everybody's going to Google it. But I... Practice what I preach is a much nicer way to say that. Yeah. And I am able, I was able to pick out the memory and forgive all the pieces of the memory. And then I was finally able, I couldn't let it go. And I kept thinking about it. And I realized it's because I didn't forgive the time. I didn't forgive the date. So I forgave the energy around the entire thing. And then I was able to let the entire thing go. Forgiving the energy is the key to it all. Yes. 

It is. And it's, to me, it's just amazing, amazing work, what you're doing. Cause that is a 4d tool, you know, that all of us need to learn and all of us need to master. And, and that's why I say you need to go within because you can still stay stuck in blame. Well, it's his fault. It's her fault. It's that person's fault. But it's like the one that's suffering is Is you, that person's not having dinner and going, man, I really screwed Catherine over. That was a great time and night. And you know, whatever year that was, they're not thinking that stuff. No, they're not even on their radar. You're not even a blip, you know? And forgiveness energy is very powerful energy. It's like the, it's like the, it's like the law of gravity. It's going to work whether you think it's going to work or not. I can call the law of gravity, the law of keeping Carrie on the planet. It doesn't care. It's going to still work. Okay. I don't believe in the law of gravity. 

Still doesn't care. It's still going to work. Then the law of forgiveness energy is serious. Not only can it change your body molecules, but it's an actual energy that goes out. Here's a quick story. I forgave a level one friend of mine. Grew up with her. Don't even remember what we were mad at. And by one, I mean on my 10 scale from one to 10, she was a one. She was the easiest person I could think of to start the whole party with, right? So I sat in the middle of my bed and I remember... I kind of imagined her as she was when I was a kid, not the adult, the kid. And I said a few things because this is my party. And if I want to yell, I can. I was all alone in the room. So I kind of got it all out. And then my forgiveness mantra, you don't have to hold any crystals unless you want to. You don't have to dance around the room or stage it unless you want to, of course. Knock yourself out. It's a very simple poem because I'm a very simple soul. So I forgive the person, the energy around the person, forgive myself. 

the energy around myself, and then I forgive the energy around the whole thing. I hadn't spoken to this person in over 35, 40 years. That's how old I am. And two hours later, she calls me up on the phone. Almost fell out of my chair. But I'm a concierge by trade, so I pulled it together very fast. And so we said all the right noises and made all the right words, and we reminisced as people do. And we caught up and I'm a very curious little bear. And I said, after all these years, I have to know, why did you call me today? She said, you know, it was the damnedest thing. Two hours ago, which was exactly when I was saying my forgiveness mantra, a figurine you gave me in school flew off my shelf, landed in the middle of my floor. I saw it and thought I should give you a call. We were 700 miles apart. 

So if forgiveness energy can change the molecules in your body and move a figurine 700 miles away on a level one person, can you imagine what it's going to do for you as you move into the higher numbers? And there's worksheets and stuff in the book as well. This is a life changing thing. But remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint. When my friends and I first came up with this system, I went back, we all three of us, we wanted to do it. So I got my list together of like 50 people. And I said, this is going to be great. It'll be like a phoenix rising from the ashes. I'm going to be a butterfly. And tomorrow morning, I'm going to wake up and everything's going to be great. Susie, sunshine, here I come. Didn't work out the way I wanted to. And I did forgive 50 people. And I spent the next three days in bed with what everybody thought was a stomach flu. Wasn't the stomach flu. Remember the Japanese water problem? 

The cells I was changing have to go someplace. The reason I want you to do it before you go to bed is because your body heals itself when you're sleeping. And if you do 10 people at a time, your body will be able to toss that. But if you do more than 10, you might not want to leave the house for a while because you're probably going to be in the bathroom for a little bit. And that's completely normal. You didn't eat any bad fish. It's just your body clearing stuff out. Most people get really tired. Some people feel their shoulders get really lighter and they forgive somebody and they know they've forgiven them because their shoulders kind of feel magically lighter. It's a little weird, but it's true. A lot of us, including me, get a pressure in their solar plexus. And for those who don't know, it's above your belly button, kind of right in the middle there. And everybody's got a different thing, but you'll know you've forgiven. If you can go on Facebook and you can look at the person's name and you don't care, you're done. You've forgiven them. 

If you can go to Thanksgiving or Christmas and you see the person you're mad at and you literally just don't care, they can push your buttons and you're just kind of laughing about it, you've forgiven them. That's how you know. You don't care. It's neutral. And that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to erase the memory. I'm just looking to erase the emotions from it. That's all I'm trying to do. But you're not going to get a number 10 person down to a one overnight. It's going to take a minute. It's like an onion. I have so many people that call me up and email me and said it didn't work. I love it when they say that to me. Yeah, it did. You just forgave the first level. The brain is a stupendous, wonderful tool, and it protects you. So as these traumatic events happen to you, your brain will put it in the back of your brain in a closet someplace. And as you peel back the layers of that onion, the brain will open some of those closets and you will start to remember things. 

forgive them as they come out, forgive what you can and just keep going. Yeah, no, a hundred, a hundred percent. Cause I, I did have a life experience myself where I forgave a family member that was, some people would consider a monster and I had to interact with them when my older brother passed away. And when I saw that person, I was like, Hey, how you doing? And I was all happy and joyful. And the person went over to my younger brother and was like, what's wrong with her? Is she on drugs? Yes. But I was completely free. I was completely free and they couldn't trigger me and they, they couldn't get my behavior, you know, cause I was just like, let's do what we got to do here. And, but I was nice. And at the end of the visit, I actually gave the person a hug and it was like, 

I know. And it blew their mind. It really did. I bet it did. It was all gone. And it, but what was interesting was when I, you know, they said, I'd like to have a relationship. I said, sure, no problem. And then they got mad about, about started bringing up the past. And I said, well, I've handed you the olive branch already. You're the one that gets to choose because I, I'm totally fine. But if you want to stay stuck in anger and unforgiveness, that's your choice. Exactly. Yeah. And the person could not do the forgiveness was still stuck in anger. And I was like, well, I still love you. And but I understand why we can't have a relationship. And that's totally fine. They're going to be stuck in this lifetime. It's they won't move forward until not in this lifetime. 

Yeah, no. And I knew that. And that's where I could have compassion and mercy and still unconditional love for that person. Because I realized they're miserable inside and I'm no longer, I'm not anymore, but they are. And that's their choice. And I have a choice of how I want to feel, how I want to act, how I want to respond. And I, and a lot of people kind of get confused, especially around the area of how forgiveness is and how amazing you feel. when you totally get clear. Your story is a really amazing accounting of what's going to happen to many people listening and watching to this, because as you forgive, even with the ones, twos and threes, you're going to start to feel better. Your life is going to open up. You're going to start to pay attention. Why? For anybody who's listening to this, pop over to YouTube and watch the video, because I'm about to hold a coffee cup in front of my face. So when you first get angry, 

Cup represents anger and betrayal and resentment and grudges. But look at my body language. Really easy to keep it off to the side for the moment, right? But the longer I hold on to this glass, now I'm using two hands to hold the cup up because it's starting to invade my space. I'm starting to think about it. And if I still don't forgive, now the cup is right in front of my face. My life has stopped. I can't have a conversation with you without talking about the anger. It's all I can think of. It's consuming me. And I'm missing opportunities. So as you forgive, you're going to notice things. You might notice your dream significant other. You might notice a new job opportunity. Why didn't you notice it before? Because you were too focused on the anger. Now, conversely, the people you live with like you the way you are. And as you move into a new person who's more joyful and more happy, the person they knew is no longer. 

people will leave your life. And as Maya Angelou once said, when somebody shows you who they really are, believe them the first time. So as people walk away from you, please know that other people like energy attracts like energy. So you might be in the hallway between doors for a little bit, but not forever because pretty soon your people will find you. The people that match your vibrational energy will find you. Yeah, they will. So I want to switch gears really quick because I do want to talk about intuition because Master of the Upper Rooms is a spiritual podcast. So how do people unlock their intuition? Because a lot of people are like, well, I want to have more intuition or I want to be able to have, I hate the word psychic abilities. I never use it. You'll never hear me use the word psychic because when you think of psychic, you think of a grifter. 

Who's going to take your money. Yeah. And no disrespect to anybody who's using that particular terminology. It's just not for me. That's why you'll hear me say intuitive. I won't use the other word. Everybody on the planet is intuitive. We're born that way. Some of us were just born with the volume turned all the way up, but you know, everybody can do this. You either see it, feel it, know it, or you just sense it. And if you're just, if you feel it, you walk into a room and it just feels off. And you're not sure why it feels off. It just does. Or you'll shake somebody's hand and it's just like, there's something not right here. Yeah. you'll hear some advice. Sounds just like your own voice in your own mind. The little bird in my shoulder, I'm clairaudient, which means I hear things. I'm not schizophrenic. I don't need a straitjacket. I literally will hear the other side. And it said that little bird has saved my life four times and counting. Not that I'm paying attention to how many times it saved my life. 

But it's there to help you. Some people see the answer. If you can imagine your childhood bedroom in your minds right now, can you see the bed? Can you see the color of the walls? If you can, that's clairvoyance. Now, it doesn't mean it's a Stephen King thing and you're going to start to see ghosts. Probably not. What it means is you see the answer. You see it in movies. You see it in the written word. You see it around you. You pay attention. That's where you get your answers. Then there's the people who hear. I literally hear the answers. And then you get the people who just know it. One minute they don't know it, and the next minute they just do. And they usually get that mama voice. You know the mama voice. Everybody had mamas. When you got in trouble, she'd use that voice on you, and you knew you were in trouble. Everybody has that voice. And your middle name. 

Oh, you think your whole name came right out, didn't it? You knew you were in my world. You knew you were somebody was in trouble when you came home from school. My mother used to bake bread when she was mad because she could beat the dough. So you'd walk in the door, you'd smell this amazing bread and you think, God, I hope she's not mad at me. Because you didn't know who she was mad at until you rounded the corner and just kind of peeked in to see if it was you. Usually it was my father. But, you know, there was that moment there you kind of worried about it. The bread was phenomenal. But everybody's got this voice and everybody hears. Some of us have just been socialized since birth to not believe in it. You see your imaginary friends when you've been talked out of it. You probably did see an imaginary. You probably did see something. Everybody has it. I teach a lot of people to do guided writing to bring this out. So 

Very quickly, go get a pen and paper. Unless you're a Gen Z-er, you probably want your phone. That's fine. I don't really care what you use. I want you to be quiet. So I want you to turn off as much technology as you can. I want you to be left alone. No spouses, no dogs, no kids. Just be alone for a few minutes. Whatever words for ask a question. Why is the sky blue? Is this for real? I actually don't care what you ask. Whatever you ask. Did Moses part the water? Whatever, I don't care. Write a question. And then whatever words form in your mind, write them down blind. If you don't get words and you see something, like you're daydreaming, you kind of see something in your head, write down what you see. If you all of a sudden smell something, write down what you smell. If you're feeling something, all of a sudden you feel joy, you feel cold, you feel this, you feel that, write down what you feel. And before you know it, 

you're going to be having a conversation with the other side. You're a hundred percent. Cause when I sit down and I do my, my blog posts, I listen. Okay. What do you want me to talk about? It's all about what do you, and they're the ones that pick out the title. They, they, and sometimes I'm like going, where's this going? But then I get it. It's like, they're taking me down this, you know, rabbit hole. I've written 12 books and every book I've ever written has been probably channeled by me. I kind of get into a zone when I write and it just, I have been known to just go into a fog, a kind of a haze when I'm writing and then go back and reread what I've written. It's like, did I write that? That's pretty good. because I, and I often don't even remember it. Yeah. It's, I like to say it can be exhausting and exhilarating at the same time. because it's like so much wisdom. 

comes in, you're like, holy cow. Yes. Did this, did this come, come for me? Cause I channel book called affirming and focusing on living a better life. And that experience was so cool. Cause I woke up one morning and it was like, you're going to write a book, Carrie, and here's the table of contents, go to your computer and boom, put it all out. I was like, wow. And they're like, okay, now we're going to work on the first one. And there was times I remember, especially on the weekend, sometimes they'd wake me up early. They're like, okay, we want to talk about this. And I'd be like, I want to go back to sleep. No, I mean, I've had that same conversation. And I would negotiate. Okay. I will get up and I will write it, but you need to give me energy throughout the rest of the day. Or let me take a nap, support me in taking a nap. And it did. And what just came out was like, Holy cow. This is a amazing conversation. 

but they love to talk when I find for me when everything is quiet and it's that small, still voice. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm about to go to bed and, um, and, and sometimes even when I close my eyes, I will see this blue light and then I will see fractals. And then sometimes it's almost like a, um, wormhole that I can, um, it's, it's pretty amazing. I don't want to freak people out. Um, by sharing that, but oh no. And sometimes I even see faces and I'll just listen to what it is and I'll see lights. Sometimes I'll even see bright lights and it's like, they're all there and they're just like, okay, let's talk. And sometimes the stuff is so profound that I'll even say, I'm not gonna get up and write this down, but please help me remember this in the morning. I want to share this. 

Some people talk to the other side in dreams. I've run into at least a dozen, what I call dreamers and they have a dream and it comes true. Yeah. So if you, I really do advise you have pen and paper by your bed. So if you wake up at three in the morning with a, with a message, write it down. There's more to this world than what meets the eye. You know, it's like, um, it's like this woman, I had a, this was this now in my defense, um, this happened like 25 years ago cause I'm 63. So I've had a lot of stuff happened to me over the years. And I was teaching this kid. She was a kid. She might've been 21, 22 maybe. And she kept saying she went to this very prestigious business school. I'm not going to say which one it was. Just let's just assume it was a very prestigious one. She must've said it 30 times in the first two hours. And I'm, 

I listened to her and after the 30th time, I just looked at her and I said, my condolences, her jaw dropped all the way to the floor. And she said, what are you talking about? And I said, cause now I have to, you have to relearn everything that you were taught because the way I, you know, they're teaching this 1950s kind of way of business. And I'm teaching a fifth dimensional way of business and it's two different things. So that's, kind of what this is. What we're talking about is a brand new way of thinking, and it's a brand new way of doing business. Imagine if all the Fortune 500 companies allowed their employees to actually be intuitive, right? And everybody gets intuitive in a life-threatening moment, but you can do it when you're calm as well. I remember I am allergic to exercise. 

I have been most of my life. And all of a sudden I kept hearing, you need to jog. Very specific. You need to run. Okay. No. My angels and my spirit guides are very used to me arguing with them. No, I'm not going to do it. Well, I couldn't get out of my head. And the thing about this kind of stuff is if they really want you to do something, you're not going to be able to toss it out of your head until you do it. I often get messages for people and I have to call them because it's going to stay in my head until I deliver it. Exactly. This was the same kind of thing. So I found the Couch to 5K running program. Brilliant program. If you need to exercise and you want to learn to run, that's the one. It's a really good program. And it literally does what it says it does. So I eventually ran a 5K. This was in 2012. And the day before my birthday in May... 

I found a lump and it was in a very strange spot. And so I went to the doctor and it was stage three breast cancer and I had found it just in time. And the surgeon said that if I hadn't taken up running and I hadn't lost all that weight, I'd be dead because mammograms didn't work in me and it was in a very strange spot. So the other side, the angels literally saved my life. That was the first time of many they've saved my life. But you you don't have to wait until it's one of those life threatening moments. Everybody can do this. It's just a matter of you paying attention. And if you've hit a wall and you think you don't think you have the abilities, start forgiving people because anger acts as a brick wall. And if you want your true gifts to come through, you need to lose some of the anger. Because it's like that brick wall that all speakers talk about. And I'm not trying to bash speakers. It just it is what it is. 

But a lot of us will talk about that big wall and you will talk, give you tools to break through your walls, that kind of thing. It's a very 1950s, 60s kind of analogy. Well, in my world, I want you to take a few bricks out of the wall, walk around the dumb thing, keep going, circle back when you can. And because forgiving the anger is going to allow you to be the person you came here to the planet to be. if you want to know what your purpose in life, what your special role is here on this earth, why am i here? This will help you figure that out. Lose some of the anger and all of those gifts are going to come through i i'm really happy you shared that because when i had my spiritual awakening and i was shown master the upper Rooms, a friend of mine said, talked about intuition and 

why it was hard for certain people. And this person, yes, she had a lot of anger. And I told her, if you look at the chart, when you can, and there's a book that actually tells you about this that I later learned about. But when you get up to the very first energetic frequency of 200, which is courage, that is where you have more direct communication with your higher self and with your angels and your guides. And the higher up you go, think about it is that's at 5%. You then next one up is 10, 15, 20, 30. So like you said, when we release all those, think about them as weights where they're stuffed in our pockets, all these rocks. When you let the rocks go, you raise yourself up energetically and vibrationally. So you're more aligned with your higher self, your true purpose, 

Why you are here, you have more direct communication with them because all that other stuff, it's like you're just stuck in the muck, in the dirt, and you've got to get it off of you. It's like being at the bottom of the ocean. That's where the third dimension is. We're at the bottom of the ocean. And it's very hard for anything to get through because we're all the way down there. As you forgive and you lose the anger, you're going to slowly come up from the bottom of the ocean. And why are you all of a sudden able to hear the other side and maybe you're tuning into your gifts? Because they can get through to you now. You're not at the bottom anymore. You're raising yourself up. So in many rooms, this is called shadow work. And when you say, I'm going to get spiritual and I'm going to start my journey, how do I say this with all the love in my heart? This journey is not for sissies. Yeah. 

When you start this journey, it's painful at times because we've been told since birth to ignore our negative feelings and put away the anger. And, you know, when I was a kid, I was taught, you know, not to cry because I'll give you something to cry about, they would tell me. And I'm here to teach you. I want you to dive into those emotions and I want you to dive into that anger. And I'm only asking you to do it one more time so you can clear it and be free of it forever. That's the important thing for everyone to really get is you're only being asked one time to do that. That's right. And to really, and I, it's like, it can save you a lifetime because that's the one thing that a lot of people don't, 

Like, especially when i work with smokers, I, I tell them, um, when they quit smoking that they're giving them, they're making a trade, a trade that is priceless because there's not enough money or, or any of that to give you more time of life. And it's a higher quality of life. The gift you're giving yourself. This is something for you. I used to be a smoker too. So, But, you know, it's years and years and years ago. I haven't had a cigarette in 40 years. But it's this is a gift for you. Forgiveness is selfish. You do it for you. You don't do it for them. And what if what let me give you an example. Let's say you're going and I use the term Aunt Martha because I don't have a relative named Martha, which is why I call her Aunt Martha. Let's just be clear. So let's say you're going to Christmas and there's a big family table. 

And you're always sitting next to Aunt Martha or within earshot. And you've begged and pleaded and tried to bribe your way out of it. But you somehow always seem to be sitting next to Aunt Martha. This is a woman who drinks too much. She knows she loves to push people's buttons and she loves to start fights. We probably all have a relative like this. My mother used to say everybody's every family is the same, only the names are different. So we probably all have a relative like this, you know. So what I want you to do is I want you to start your forgiveness journey with Aunt Martha. And if you can't forgive Aunt Martha, and I'm pretty sure you won't be able to on the first try, I want you to pick out some of the things in the dumpster. I want you to pick out a Thanksgiving or a Christmas that was particularly horrible. And I want you to forgive the people around Aunt Martha, the other people at the table, their energy. 

I want you to actually forgive the table itself, the energy around the table. Forgive the turkey, the energy around the turkey. Forgive the chair you were sitting in and the energy around the chair. I'm as serious as I've ever been. And then if you can, try and forgive Aunt Martha. If you can't forgive Aunt Martha, then just forgive the energy around her. Right. Don't forgive Aunt Martha. Just forgive the energy. And then move on to another memory, another Thanksgiving or another Christmas. Now, what's this going to do for you on Christmas Day when you show up at their house? It's not going to do anything for Aunt Martha. Nothing. She's still going to be as vitriolic as she was the last time. It's going to do everything for you because you're not going to care anymore. You're not going to feel as angry. You're probably going to be happier, which is going to piss her off, which is the happier you are, the more it's going to piss her off. OK, this is getting fun now. You can do this with anybody. You can forgive politicians. 

you can forgive the middle east and the energy around the middle East. What is that going to do for the middle East? Not a darn thing, but it's going to do everything for you. If this is something that's irritating you, people, place, thing, a time, everything is forgivable. It's called shadow work and it's not easy, but it's called shadow work. And the beauty of this is you're going to feel really good when it's done. But start with the ones, work your way up to the tens because a ten or a bear It took me a long time to forgive my parents. And it took some Simone Biles level mental gymnastics to get there. But I did it eventually. And give yourself a break, especially if you are your own number 10. Maybe you're the one that needs to be forgiven. Okay. How did I forgive myself? I compartmentalize. I can't pronounce this word. It's so embarrassing. Compartmentalize. Compartmentalize. What she said. That word. Compartmentalize. Yeah. I took... 

teenage Catherine as a separate entity outside of myself. And I looked at what she did. And I could forgive her because she she created a life and a personality so she could survive. And she didn't have a lot of tools to work with yet because she was young. Then I did the same for 20 year old Catherine and 30 year old Catherine and as I went through the years, and I didn't do this all in one night, trust me, it took me weeks. But I went through the years, I was finally able to forgive myself. That's kind of how I did it. Yeah. No, I mean, when you say that, I know there's a 10 I still need to forgive. And I did a ton of forgiving on this one particular person. And then I got a flyer in the mail this person is on the ballot to be the circuit court judge. 

And this woman is a monster. Should not be a judge. She's evil. And I have, my son and I have personal experience with this person. And when I saw it, my first reaction was, one, I hope she does a good damn job at it. But two, it made me really afraid for society as a whole. Because she's... I saw a different side of this person that probably a lot of people did not see. And when I even went to the Oregon State Bar with my husband and my son to file a substantiated complaint about her, they turned us away. Well, that's where you start. You forgive the state bar and the energy around the state bar. You forgive the people who are voting for her and the energy around the people who are voting for her. 

You forgive the table or the desk where she's going to sit. You forgive the gavel that she uses. See what I'm doing? I'm picking apart things out of that particular dumpster. You get that 10, you can probably get it down to a nine, down to an eight. It's going to take, it's going to take a minute. Yeah. Yeah. But, and yeah, because I could literally, when I saw it, I was just like, I could feel the anxiety, like, oh my gosh. And, and so, so yes, I will take, that advice. Thank you. And it's going to free you up. I mean, even getting a 10 down to a nine, you're still really mad, but you got it to a nine. Yeah. See, I'm going to have you in the book. I'm going to have you, it is a system, a step-by-step system. And I'm going to, once you make your list, then I want you to rate everybody from one to 10 and you could have six number fives. I don't care everything. You can skip numbers, but I want everybody to have a number next to them. Right. And what might happen is you might, 

forgive a level three person and you forgive that first layer. And underneath there is some anger. This happened to a client of mine and the person went from a number three. She bumped it up to a seven. She's like, I'm more angry than I thought I was. And that happens. So you you race the number and you put a seven by it and you try it the next time. Right. But this is going to free you up as you go through your list. It's going to start making you feel better, which is going to free up your life. And, you know, after you say the mantra, I want you to check into your body. How do you feel? Are you still angry or do you feel better? And if you are still angry, what's the number now? Is it a seven or did you get it down to a six or a five? And if you're still angry, is there a part of your body where you can feel the anger? Check in with your body and see how it's feeling. Yeah. And then don't try it again right there. Wait 24 hours and do it again. Yeah. 

No, I fully agree. Well, and also doing the numbering is super, super important because it's tuning in and checking in with you. Right. And it's I look at it is it's honoring you and seeing what's working and what's not working. And and we are layers. We're like onions. You're just peeling back the layers, peeling it back, peeling it back until like what I did with that one person where I I could see them and it didn't bug me at all. It didn't bug me. Yeah. That's what I'm going for. I want you to be able to see these people either online in social media or in person, and it's not going to bother you at all. Yeah. And that's going to surprise you the most. The first time that happens, you can say, wait, wait, that didn't bother me. I saw one of my relatives on Facebook the other day and it didn't bother me. Shocker. I was thrilled. 

No, it's great work. It's amazing work. I fully support it and believe in it. And that was interesting because I sometimes, I call it, I psychoanalyze myself where I was like, yeah, if I would have seen her, if it was just an advertisement for her business or her services of what she used to do, I would have been like, oh, you know, good luck with that. And I would have just like, you know, just let it go. But when I saw that it was something where she was going to be of service to humanity, that was my trigger. I mean, and I needed to clear all that and, and just, and I will do that. Thank you. Cause I, I've been doing some of it, but I haven't done the energy around it. I haven't done her in that position. I did go on Facebook and ask everyone not to vote for her. There you go. Yeah. 

You can't forgive her, forgive everything else. Yeah. Yeah. And if you can never forgive her. Oh, I never will. No, but that's fine. Some things in this world are 100% unforgivable, but you can forgive yourself, the energy and other things in the memory. So you can keep going. But if the person itself is unforgivable, that's fine. There are people in this world that are unforgivable and that's fine. Yeah. No, and I, and I realized that is um yeah I I got to that, to that conclusion, to that place because, um, and I do realize too that, and this is gonna sound kind of weird, but maybe you'll, when we, when we release all of that, sometimes what, the lessons they're supposed to learn come out. Right. Exactly. Right. And what they might be a catalyst. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I, and I, um, I won't get into any of that, but I, I have experienced that as well. And because when I was doing a lot of forgiveness towards her and another person, because they were co-conspirarizing together, um, the other persons who was easier to forgive the other person, um, 

their whole world came crashing down. Whole world. You know, his wife left him, he lost his job. I mean, everything, you know, and i was like, well, you know i i completely forgave you. And because i believe i really firmly believed, you know, because of that, it set things free and allowed the universe to do what, you know, it needed to do. Exactly. I've had the privilege of doing private sessions with a lot of cops. And what they tell me is sometimes they have to be somebody's karma. Yeah. And they're fine with that. And they can forgive themselves for that because karma, sometimes they are the karma and they, they are nine out of 10 of them are completely fine with that. Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. Yeah. 

Yeah, it is. It is. It is what it is. So before we end this, because I can talk to you for a long, long time. I could. I just let everyone know I am going to create a blog post with your information. The links to Audible links to Amazon, you know, for the books that you have, your website, all social media, all that good stuff. But before I say, you know, just just tell everyone where we can find your gifts and you know, your, your books, your website, all the good stuff. Tell us. Well, you can go to my website. It's Catherine Giovanni.com. And thanks to my mother. My first name is spelled a little strangely. Thanks mom. K A T H A R I N E Giovanni.com. You can also go to Amazon. I understand not everybody wants to read. So I have the auto, I have the audio book available as well as the paperback and the ebook. 

For both books, The Little Bird on Your Shoulder and My Forgiveness Book. Both have audio books available. One I really liked in The Forgiveness Book, well, you had a lot of things to work on. Yeah, I have some sheets back there. Yes, yeah. I thought that was awesome because a lot of times people sell that separately, but I thought it was really great that you included it for people. No, it's in there. It's also on my website for people who really want it. A lot of people, you know, a yellow pad of paper and a pen works just as good. But there's a. And she just froze, which is OK, and she's going to come back really soon. You froze for a minute. I did. I know. But yes, sometimes sometimes it is really good. 

to write it down in the actual book. Cause when I get, when I buy books, I highlight it. I'm all inside it. I do too. Yeah. It's very hard. You know, I call it, usually call it my working copy. It's the one you can't give away because you've dog-eared everything and underlying things and that kind of thing. And this is the first book of three. The second book is probably going to concentrate a lot on forgiving yourself and the unforgivable as well as some other stuff. And then the third book is going to be quite a wild ride. So look forward to that. I look forward to that. Well, and also too, what I think is really cool is when I've made notes and books and I go back and look at it later, I'm like, whoa, I, that, you know, I, I see how, how I have raised up or I'm not in that position anymore. And so it kind of validates that, Hey, I'm finally free of this. Yeah. And for the women out there, just as a last word before you, uh, before we click off, um, 

And this is to everybody, but mostly women. You are worthy enough to live a life of joy and happiness. It is your birthright. Everybody is allowed to live in joy and happiness. We're not meant to be here living in a refrigerator box on the street. That's not why we're here. This is your chance to live in joy and happiness and live the life you were always meant to live. lose the anger and your whole world is going to open up for you. Yep. A hundred percent. Well, I am so happy to have you here and I will, I'm going to make a list. So when you have your second book come out, we could talk about that. And when you have the third, we can talk about that. Happy to come back anytime. That's great. Okay. Well, you Catherine have a fabulous rest of your day and many, many blessings to you. 

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it. Okay. All right. Bye.