Master the Upper Rooms

How to De-escalate Any Situation: Expert Advice from a SWAT Negotiator

• Kerie Logan • Season 1 • Episode 49

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In a world filled with conflict and misunderstandings, effective communication has never been more crucial. Join me as I sit down with Terry Tucker, a former SWAT hostage negotiator, who shares invaluable insights on the art of negotiation and transformative communication. Throughout our engaging conversation, Terry emphasizes the importance of understanding the emotional states of those we engage with, revealing that a mere 7% of our message is conveyed through words. Instead, he highlights that tone and body language speak volumes more.

The episode delves into the techniques used in crisis negotiations and their applications in everyday life, focusing on the significance of empathy, mirroring, and building trust. Terry illustrates these principles with intriguing anecdotes from his time as a negotiator, connecting them to parenting and interpersonal relationships, making a compelling case for why everyone can benefit from adopting these strategies.

Terry also tackles common misconceptions about negotiation, particularly concerning conflict resolution in personal relationships and parenting. He encourages listeners to develop their communication skills, reminding us that fostering trust is key to any successful interaction. Whether you're in a high-stakes negotiation or simply navigating daily conversations, the truths shared in this episode can help you achieve better outcomes in your interactions. Don’t miss out on the chance to enhance your communication arsenal! Subscribe now and share your thoughts with us about what designates meaningful communication in your life.

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone. This is your host, Keri Logan, at Master the Upper Rooms, and today I got a really cool person I'm going to be chatting with and his name is Terry Tucker. And what I love the most about Terry is he has so much life experience. He focuses on self-improvement, life coaching, alternative health, life experiences, parenting, education. But the most cool thing about Terry is he at one time was a SWAT hostage negotiator and that really stood out for me because we all know when someone is in that situation, they are at the very pit pit bottom of what I would call 3D human consciousness. They're stuck in shame, regret, humiliation, guilt, and Terry's the kind of guy to walk on in, try to connect with that person and move them up to the courage to do something different.

Speaker 1:

And I would love Terry's insight and wisdom today to share with all of you the steps that he takes to achieve that success and helping people. Because, as we were chatting earlier before, as we were chatting earlier before, he pointed out that well, even once you get that person, let's say, to calm down and all of that, you still have the neighbors, you got family, you got friends and there's different ways we communicate with people to kind of prepare them for that. So today we have a lot to talk about. I'm super excited. So, Terry, welcome to Master the Upper Rooms. How are you today?

Speaker 2:

I am great, keri, thanks for having me on. I'm really looking forward to talking with you today.

Speaker 1:

Yes, same here. So let's unpack this Like if you could recall a scenario, one that was, If you could recall a scenario one that was maybe challenging, and what did you do? What are the steps that you take? And we talked briefly, but I want everyone who's listening to really, really dive in and get this.

Speaker 2:

Well, I guess let me start with what I was given when I started out as a negotiator and I was given this formula, and I'll give you the formula and tell you about it. But then I'll tell you what I was given when I started out as a negotiator and I was given this formula, and I'll give you the formula and tell you about it. But then I'll tell you why I was given it. I was given the formula. All of us were as negotiators. The formula was 738.55. And it had to do with how we as human beings communicate with each other. Had nothing to do with police or SWAT or anything like that, just how people communicate. So 7% of how we communicate a message are the words that we use. And think how many times in your life you've been like, oh, I wish I hadn't said that or oh, I wish I would have said that differently. That's only 7% of how that message comes across to that person. 38% is the tone of voice that you use.

Speaker 1:

Are you really excited and can't wait to?

Speaker 2:

talk late or are you kind of down and depressed and slow? So what kind of voice are you using? And then 55% of how that message comes across is our body language and our facial expressions. And so we were given that formula because, as hostage negotiators, if somebody was barricaded in a room with a gun, or had hostages or was just barricaded themselves with a gun, we were not in the room with that person. It just wasn't. That wasn't, wouldn't be safe to do that.

Speaker 1:

Many times we're outside the door.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes we were blocks away talking to that person on the phone, and so we didn't have the luxury of saying something to the person and see them kind of roll their eyes like, oh what an idiot, I can't believe. Terry said that to me. So we had to get good, certainly figuring things out based on what people were saying, but also what they weren't saying and how they were saying it.

Speaker 1:

So that's why they gave us that formula. Now that helps. I agree, because I've always said, it's not sometimes what you say, but how you say it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 2:

And you know and again I mean you kind of mentioned it when we would arrive on scene, A lot of times it was like I have no idea why we're here. I have no idea what precipitated this. I mean, why is this person doing what they're doing? And there was a I guess I got to sort of dispel this rumor. So back in the late 1970s or 1990s there was a movie called the Negotiator and Samuel L Jackson played this like almost Superman kind of guy that did everything. And I always get the question is that the way it happens? No, it's absolutely not the way it happened. So you may be the primary, so you're on the headset talking to the person no-transcript, huge fight with his mother. He grabbed the gun, he went in his bedroom, slammed the door, barricaded himself, and that's what's going on. Oh, okay, that helps, Because sometimes you know you're, you want to appeal to people's. Oh, you know you love your parents, you love your children, you love us, but whatever, it is like well, we're not talking about his mother at

Speaker 2:

all you know during this scenario, because of what precipitated it tactical empathy. I think you can get rid of the word tactical and just talk about empathy. So we wouldn't start out by saying, you know, hey, carrie, I'm Sergeant Tucker. It would be, hey, carrie, I'm Terry or hi, I'm Terry. What's your name? And a lot of times you get it's none of your business, you don't need to know my name. Okay, what would you like me to call you? And so you know, maybe they'd give you a nickname. You know, cj or something like that. So so you're going back and forth like that. So then it's CJ. Help me to understand what's going on today. You know what? What's upsetting you? Where are we right now? And the important word there is understand. It's not agree. If I was negotiating with somebody that was a three-time homicide suspect, I wasn't going to say, oh, absolutely, you should have killed all three of those people. It was understand, because understanding leads to trust.

Speaker 2:

And trust gets to a point where I'm trying to, where I can get this person out safely, and trust gets to a point where I'm trying to, where I can get this person out safely.

Speaker 1:

Yes, because on the chart of human consciousness it vibrates at the level of 400. And right above that is actually love, and below the understanding is acceptance, it's forgiveness, it's willingness. Yes, there is trust, there's courage, there's all of that, and the hard part is a lot of times when people are in that situation, they're hoping that you're willing to work with them and they're hoping that you're willing to see their side of the story, of their scenario. And so having that understanding brings about clarity, because it's not all about oh, I'm going to judge you or, and I'm going to condemn you or, you know, shame you or ridicule you. I want to know, you know what happened. Help me, help me, like you said, help me understand so I can better support you as a person.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. And that was. That was the whole thing. I mean, if you think about what we did as negotiators, it's the same thing. So we're trying to build a relationship and what is any successful relationship built on? It's built on trust. You know parent, child, you know husband, wife, boss, subordinate. If you don't trust the other person, it's not going to be a good relationship. So we were trying to build trust by understanding what the person said to us.

Speaker 2:

And I may be getting ahead of myself, but let me say this there were times where people would say to us hey, I'll come out, but you got to promise me I'm not going to go to jail. And we would have to say really, do you want me to lie to you right now? I mean, I've been honest with you through this entire thing. Do you want me to lie to you now? Because I'm not going to lie to you and I'm going to tell you that when you do come out, you are going to have to go to jail. But then we would try to deflect the conversation to something, you know, something better, something more palatable that they could handle. And we never lied for a lot of reasons, but one of the big reasons we never lied and this happened several times during the time I was a negotiator is that maybe a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, we would be right back negotiating with this person, because as I said, maybe they had a big fight with their mother.

Speaker 2:

Well, mom's still alive and mom's still pushing their buttons. And three years from now, mom and him have a big blow up and he grabs a gun, he barricades himself again and now we're right back in it. But if he ever felt hey, Terry, you lied to me the last time we did this, my credibility is out the door. You're going to have to bring in another negotiator to start at ground zero and try to build that trust again.

Speaker 1:

And that would be really, really hard, because you learned to, you got deceived the last time. So, yes, and that's the hard part is, a lot of times people, when they get so triggered and stuck in survival mode, their rational thinking is outside the door because law, and they don't even think of the consequences of their choices and actions. And that's the hard thing is, yeah, they don't want to go to jail, but they didn't want to be in this situation either. And that's where I tell people to educate themselves about reactive abuse. A lot of people don't know what is reactive abuse and it is where someone pushes you and pushes you and pushes you to where you snap and you do something that goes against your normal rational thinking, logic. You just you do something completely irrational and and.

Speaker 1:

But the hard part is then the person that abused you and was trauma triggering you gets that reaction. Now they play the victim and you're the abuser and it's like no for me. I'm like, I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way. You're both at fault for what happened. But, seriously, to me that's a red flag that that person is a danger. You do not want to interact with them, you don't want to have anything to do with it Because, like you said, three years from now, mom's going to find a way to trigger you again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, or sooner.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, and you're absolutely right, and you said something that, as you were saying it, I was thinking about. You know, people used to ask us how we did what we did. You know, explain it to me. And the best way I ever heard was you talked about your rational brain, your rational thinking. Think about when we were, we were kids, you know. We would go to the park and we would play on the teeter totter or the seesaw. So when we started negotiating with somebody, usually their emotional brain was way up in the air. Their rational brain was down in the ground. They're yelling and screaming. They may be pacing back and forth, hitting the wall, cussing at you, whatever it is, and over time, by we used to ask how and what questions. We stayed away from. Why questions? Because why questions sound accusatory.

Speaker 2:

I mean, if I said Well, carrie, why did you wear that today? You might be like, oh wait, does this not like what I'm wearing today? It could be.

Speaker 1:

I can get to the same information by saying Okay, what made you decide to wear?

Speaker 2:

that jacket today. That's a little less intrusive, that's a little less accusatory. So we would ask how and what questions and over time, letting them burn off a lot of that emotional energy, we would get that teeter-totter to equilibrium. And then hopefully again more curious questions how and what, silence, things like that and we'll talk. I'm sure we'll talk about that. You get to the point where their rational brain is up in the air and their emotional brain is down in the ground. That's the time we start talking about solutions.

Speaker 2:

When they're yelling and screaming we're not telling them to gun down. Come out, let the hostage. We're not talking about that at all. We're just trying to get them to burn that off. And now, when the rational brainwomen engage, that now it's hey, what do you think about coming out? What do you think about putting the gun down? I'll come down to the scene, We'll talk man to man, We'll talk face to face, those kind of things of interaction, connection with another human being who they've been talking to for hours. That's why hostage negotiation takes. I mean sometimes it took six, seven, eight hours. I mean you're exhausted at the end of it and all you did was sit on your butt and talk to somebody, you know. But it's the emotion that you put into it, Because I'll say this, to be good at it, you have to get down in the mud, you have to get in the weeds with this person.

Speaker 2:

So if somebody says to us you know they're yelling and screaming, they're just livid with their mother. And you say something knucklehead-y, like you seem like you're a little upset with your mother. You totally missed what they just said. You got to be man. You are pissed as hell at your mother, aren't you? Yeah, I am. Oh, Terry gets me, he understands me. Boom, that's what we're trying to do. So you got to get down in the weeds with these people, and that's why hostage negotiation is so exhausting, and that's why hostage negotiation is so exhausting.

Speaker 1:

Well, and sometimes you know you need to validate how they're feeling. Yeah, I'd get pissed off too if someone you know did that to me. I understand, you know why you're angry. You know it's true, because we've all been in situations where someone is angry and defensive and you can't rationalize with them. It's like they got this wall up and nothing will go through. And not until they calm down I call it baseline get to neutrality, where they can just breathe and then start to think. That's where you can negotiate more clearly, you can compromise and you can figure things out. And it's hard because that person that finds themselves in that situation, because they got so reactive and so triggered, that's when they start to think about. And I'm just going to say this oh shit, what have I done? What situation have I found myself in? And I'm just curious from you are a lot of people shocked when they calm down and realize, oh my God, I'm in this situation. They didn't anticipate it, they didn't expect it.

Speaker 2:

No, no, they absolutely didn't. And you've got to guide them to a way out. You've got to guide them to a situation that's safe because they all think they're going to walk outside and they're going to get filled with.

Speaker 1:

You know that they're going to get shot and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

It's like no, relax, and again, that's the other thing and and I think you know this from what you do the other thing we were taught. We were taught is how to use our voices oh yeah you know and and and I am, I'm an emotional guy.

Speaker 2:

I can get you know real excited and have fun, and I'm. But you've got to kind of sort of stay in the middle, you've got to be, you've got to use your voice like, well, you know, you don't think that's possible, carrie, and then be quiet, and silence is a huge part of what we did. We would, we would, we would use kind of what was called it was being curious.

Speaker 1:

We were taught be curious oh yeah, why did you know?

Speaker 2:

don't ask the why question, but, kerry, what, what makes you think we can't get this resolved today and then go silent? Because we don't like silence. As human beings, we want to fill that void. And if you know that, you just be quiet and eventually the person will start talking, because they don't like silence. And it may just be they're burning off more energy, or they may give you something about why this is going on, or what their mother said to them to get them to a point where they did what they did.

Speaker 2:

Or you know, terry, I'm scared, and I might say something like You're scared, and then go silent again because I want what? What do you? You didn't you scare? What are you scared of? You're coming out, you're scared of your mother. Mother, you're scared of talking to me some more. What are you scared of? I don't. I don't want to ask that question. I want you to tell me, and just by by giving that you're scared, and going silent allows them now to say, yeah, terry, I'm scared, when I come out, I'm going to go to jail, you're scared about jail.

Speaker 1:

And then they'll talk again, so it's ending everything.

Speaker 2:

A lot of it is called mirroring or parroting. You're just basically saying back to them what they said to you.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Those last two or three words, or that one word that was really, really important, and just parroting it back to them and going silent, because they will then start to give you more information about what it is that you know. They just I'm scared. Well, what does that mean? Like I said, who are you scared of? You're scared of me, you're scared of the police, you're scared of getting shot. You're scared of coming out, scared of your mother. What are you afraid of?

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And now we can delve into that a little bit. So that was a lot to digest.

Speaker 1:

So no cause, then it made me think about, you know, parenting, because a lot of scenarios with with kids, if you're a parent, that's always berating your child and being, you know, angry and disappointed. You know the choices that your kid makes when that child's in a crisis situation. They're not going to come to you because they're going to expect the same exact outcome, the same exact tone of voice, attitude. You know judgment, shame, guilt, all of that. They're not going to talk to you and that's to me, I think, is very, very sad, because when your child needs you the most, they don't trust you because they know you don't want to understand and you're not going to be able to relate. So to me, you know, when it comes to parenting, it is all about listening and, like you said, let them share what's going on, because we forget as we get older. We were teenagers, we did stupid stuff. I mean, there's so many things and if you can talk to your kid and have that connection, I think it's a beautiful thing. Oh, it's huge.

Speaker 2:

But I'll tell you right now I am totally guilty of what you just said. I mean, I knew all this stuff, I had training in all this stuff and you would go home and you know our three year old daughter would take a cup of milk and just look at you and just turn it over and dump it all over the floor.

Speaker 2:

And I would go nuts. And it was like oh my gosh, terry, you know this stuff as a negotiator and yet you're, you're totally just falling back into how and how a parent would react. You know, it's like you stupid, why did you? You know it's like oh, Terry, that was you handled that terrible.

Speaker 2:

I did, you know. I mean, I didn't do it all the time and I learned from it and things like that. And you're right, as you get older, as you're a teenager, you can start using some of this stuff. I remember we were negotiating with a 15 year old kid one time who had a gun, who was barricaded, and we were getting nowhere with him on all the techniques. Well, it seems like so-and-so is important to you, or you know, oh really, and kind of ending on the curious voice, getting nothing. So we're like you know what, we're going to take a break, we'll call you back nothing. So we're like you know what we're going to take a break, we'll call you back. So we got together and we're like nothing's working. What's the deal?

Speaker 2:

And one of the older guys who had grown kids is like wait a minute, he's 15 years old, he's a kid, he's a child, let's scare him. And so we had the tactical team. There were things called flashbangs that you can break a window, you can drop them in, and sometimes they're called flashbang grenades. They don't blow up, they don't send shrapnel anywhere, but all they do is, when they go off, they produce a really bright light and a really loud bang, loud bang. And we're like yeah, let's try.

Speaker 1:

I was trying everything else, nothing else was working.

Speaker 2:

So you know, we had the tactical team break a window and drop one of those in and in 10 minutes he was out because we scared him enough that it's like, okay, oh, I don't want any, I don't want any part of this. I mean, they're coming after me now, I want to come out. So I mean, sometimes you gotta be unconventional, but as, as teenagers, things like, well, what's upsetting you right now? And then go silent and let them talk. That's where you you know what you were just talking about, that's where you develop the trust.

Speaker 1:

Oh, dad asked me a question and I can talk and he's interested in hearing my opinion. And a lot of times with my kiddo, I'll say what do you need from me?

Speaker 2:

That's great yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. What do you need from me? That's great, yeah, yeah. What do you need from me? Even though I don't understand what's going on and stuff, you're in crisis mode. What do you need from me? How can I, how can I support you in this situation? I might not be able to comprehend or relate or even understand, but I see you're distressed and you need me. What do you need from me?

Speaker 2:

And that's great, and you make a great point with that, because you and I both know that, at the end of the day, we're not in control of this. I mean what this person does, how they act. You know, I'm not going to give you the answer. I'm going to try to lead you down the path where you come up with the answer, because I, you know, I'll tell you, 90% of the time we were effective getting people out, but 10% of the time, especially if the person was wanted for, you know, a heinous crime, you know a murder, a kidnap or a rape or something they knew they were going to prison for the rest of their life yeah, they came out.

Speaker 2:

So it's like no, I'm going to put a bullet in my head. I don't mean to sound crass about it, but they would. They would. They're like, no, I'm not coming out. You know, bang. And you'd hear the shot, and and, and I'm going to sound like a real jerk when I say this. But I never lost any sleep over that and I say that because I knew I had done everything I could to get that person out safely. I knew I had great training and I knew I worked with great people. But at the end of the day you and I know this it's really their decision.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, do they want to take our advice? Do they want the help or do they like? You know what the heck with you people? I'm going to go do it, okay, fine, I can't make you do anything. We can't make another human being do something. They've got to decide they want to do it.

Speaker 1:

We can try to lead them down the yellow brick road, I know, and it's hard, because sometimes we do have to step back and realize that they're in control of all their choices and all their decisions. And sometimes what's? The odds that are stacked against them, like you said, aren't great and the alternative is well, I know it sounds morbid to say this I could just end it all now, instead of spending 30 years, the rest of my life, you know being a manslave to Bubba. Who's in prison? Who wants that? Nobody wants that. And so they're weighing their odds for the choices they made and the situation that you know they're in. And yeah, I mean it's a tough place, it's really a tough place that sometimes people you know find them in, and even right there, I mean, I hate to say it, but pulling the trigger takes courage, because you're making that choice to just end everything.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. But again you're trying. You know, through this you're trying what's important to them, right? You know it seems like whatever. Maybe they got a kid.

Speaker 2:

It seems like your daughter is really important to you, is really valuable to you, is somebody you want to. Whatever it is, you try to get them to see a future as opposed to there's no way out of this. I'll get you out of this. I'll help you. We'll do this together. You're not by yourself. And let me let me say one more thing, and I think this is important and this has come up on other podcasts that I've done If we thought somebody was considering suicide, someone was considering ending their life, we would call it out. You know it would be like, hey, carrie, are you thinking of hurting yourself? Now?

Speaker 1:

if you're not, you're going would be like hey, carrie, are you thinking of hurting yourself?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, now, if you're not, you're going to be like oh Terry, you're an idiot. I can't believe you even said something like that. Yeah, but if you are, you may have just opened the door that said, oh my God, he sees me, he sees that I'm in trouble. You know, somebody sees me as a person, and I've heard so many people have said, well, they were doing all the things that you would suspect that man, maybe this person's thinking of killing themselves, they're giving their stuff away, they're talking about funerals, they're talking about death, they're talking about ending their life and they're like well, we didn't want to say anything, because we were afraid we were going to put that idea right so for those of us listening to us and you and I both know this you're not going to put the idea into their mind, but if you think it might happen, say something to them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just say are you think of hurting yourself are you gonna?

Speaker 2:

are you gonna go home tonight and kill yourself? Because if they're not, they're gonna tell you you know something, probably pretty nasty, like no, you idiot, I'm not that. But if they are, you just open the door like, oh my God, another human being sees me and you may have just presented, prevented them from going home and taking their own life.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I always look at what leverage do I have? Like you said, your daughter's valuable to you, or this is important to you. You try to, you know, find. I always like to try to find the leverage because that helps me, help them, because a lot of times, as you know, when they're stuck in that irrational part of their brain, that leverage is their solution. Yeah, and they can't see it because they're not thinking about their daughter or how it's going to impact. You know other family members or this and that, and sometimes I say, well, if you can't do put that impact, you know what would your daughter feel?

Speaker 2:

I mean, if she's going to grow up without her dad, how would she feel knowing that you, just you, chose to end your life over spending a life with her? How would that make you feel? And then be quiet? Yeah, you know, and, and, and it may, there may be, you know, 30 seconds of silence while they're thinking about it. What, oh what does that mean?

Speaker 2:

I don't know well yeah, it would be hard, for it would be hard for them. Yeah, it would be hard because she, I wouldn't be there for all her special events. Yeah, her special events, you know it, it's. It's just that little how you, you know, you take those one or two or three words and you just turn it back on them and it gets them to think, and it gets them to talk, you know, and eventually get them to where you need them to be. It works for a lot of people Now. It may not work for somebody that's high on drugs, it may not work for somebody who's intoxicated and things like that.

Speaker 2:

I'll give you a quick, funny story. We had a barricaded person with a hostage and I was working that night and I got to the scene. I was in a marked car. I was talking to the uniform guy. I was like what's the deal? He's drunk, he's barricaded himself in the house with his wife as a hostage and he's got a gun he's threatening to shoot. I said, ok, have him on the phone. He said yep. So I started to talk to him and, as I said, you don't talk at the beginning about solutions. That's usually hours down the road. But I just had a gut feel about this guy. So I said to him what would it take for you to let your wife go and come out? And there was this long pause. And then he said to me give me a beer. And I was like I said to him if I gave you a beer, do I have your word? And this is where you're developing trust, you're developing those relationships. Do I trust you?

Speaker 1:

Do I have your?

Speaker 2:

word that you would let your wife go and you would come out. He said do I have your word I could drink the? Your wife go and you would come out? He said do I have your word I could drink the beer? I said you answer my question first. He said, yeah, I'll let her go and I'll come out. I said then you can drink the beer. So I gave $5 to one of the officers and told him to go down to the store buy a beer. The tactical team put it on the front porch. I called him back and I said hey, your beer's on the front porch, but you don't get it until your wife comes out. And you come out without the gun in your hands up. And he hit me again with do I have your word that I can drink it? I said you absolutely have my word, you can drink it.

Speaker 1:

All of a sudden, here comes the front door comes open, here comes his wife with her hands up and here he comes with his hands up.

Speaker 2:

We let him drink his beer Because, again, we're not going to lie to you If I told you you could drink it. You're going to drink it and off the GLE went. So it was not a typical negotiation.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, well, look at it as some people's priorities are different.

Speaker 2:

Totally yeah, guy wanted a beer, like you were already drunk.

Speaker 1:

So I mean, what's one more beer gonna do to you? You know, yeah, yeah, no, I hear you, so I know you do. You do other things. I know you're an author. You are a founder of a motivational um check LLC. You've done so many things. Where can people find you, terry?

Speaker 2:

yeah, the easiest place to find me is at my website, which is also my blog called Motivational Check, so it's motivationalcheckcom, and just leave me a message there and I'll get back with you.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, awesome. I'm so thrilled that we had this conversation. I thought it was just great and, to let everyone know, I'll create a blog post with your links and any social media stuff on there and I just I'm yeah, I'm really thrilled we had this talk because I think this information is just it's valuable for people to you know, to grasp this concept and really get it. So thank you, terry.

Speaker 2:

You're quite welcome, carrie. Thank you for having me on. I think this is good information. I mean, the world today. We're just yelling at each other, we're screaming at each other and when you're yelling at me and I'm yelling at you, nobody hears anything. So use some of these techniques when you're interacting with other people. Don't get all emotional If you can stay in control and let the other party get emotional. All emotional If you can stay in control and let the other party get emotional. You have the control in the situation. By you going off ranting and raving, you've lost control of that. Ask these how and what questions. Use empathy, find out what's going on, find out what's important with the person, and even in business. This stuff works. It works in sales, it works when you're negotiating contracts. So use some of the stuff that we gave you today and hopefully you'll be more successful and more happy.

Speaker 1:

I fully agree, cause in the end, that's what people want anyway is to be successful and happy. Exactly, it's a win-win, okay. Well, you have a fantastic rest of your day, Terry, and thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, kira, you take care.

Speaker 1:

Take care All right, bye.